Saturday, August 8, 2009

Money, money, money, money... Money.

This is the first of what I hope will be more joint topic posts that I make with Lotus Ceriano at her awesome blog, Lotus-Pocus. We were chatting about topics and discovered we were both thinking of posting about money, and after a brief spell of, "You go ahead," "No, you go ahead," we found we were going to be addressing pretty different aspects of the same general theme. So I'm taking on the players' side, and she's going to be discussing the club owners' side. Hopefully we'll be finishing up near enough in time that these can be read together.

Front: Hacob Hollwood and Hilda Static. Back: Niina Jenvieve, me, and Sinnamon Sands. "Win Thorn's Money" trivia at Double Standards

From the Ground Up

Not all trivia in SL is played for money. Gogomodo proliferates in many nooks and crannies, and... well, I can't really think of any other common examples. So I guess it won't be off the mark to say that nearly all trivia in SL is played for money. When I was a poor noob, my first friend and mentor took me to a dance club with a trivia orb running, and I pretty much swept the game, L$5 at a time. Since the noob wardrobe is typically substandard, and the "Best in..." contests this friend pretty much thrived on were beyond my reach, trivia quickly became my primary source of income, and that remains the case today.

The amount of money a game pays off matters, but how much does it matter? Who does it matter to, and why? Does it stand on its own as a factor or does it interact with others in building the sense of a game?

It might be because club Shiraz is the place I've been attending the longest and still the most often, or it might be because of the whole range of payouts across the trivia landscape, but I sort of see L$20 per question as a baseline, and before I began spreading out in order to write up new games for this blog, any game that paid less than L$20 didn't really capture my attention. It wasn't just that the money wasn't worth my time but that I almost didn't take such games seriously. Money attracts competition, and it's a lot more fun to win money when you're beating out speed demons and brainiacs than when you're beating out folks who aren't really either. One might say I grew out of the L$5-per-question stage.

I'm not so much of a snob these days; there are some games paying out L$10 or L$15 that are a lot of fun and worth going to, and there are some (well, one, really) that pays out well but, frankly, isn't that high on the joy scale. Obviously, every game is a balance of factors: quality of the questions, effectiveness of the format, personality of the host(s), atmosphere of the location, friendliness of the crowd, and -- last but not least -- money. If a place is strong enough where all those other factors are concerned, then you can have a bunch of friends kvetching around a gogomodo board (or several), earning no money but running up a location's team score. But those scenarios are rare, and winnings, I'd suggest, aren't just a draw because people like money but because the presence of money changes the balance of all of those factors.

I pretty much stuck to Shiraz over my first summer in SL, only branching out gradually. Come fall, though, I was starting to discover that elsewhere, I could win enough not just for a couple of cute dresses a week but to rent a home. AllieKatt Knipper's games, with their healthy bonuses, Thorn's with the first three-winner format I'd played, and eventually Chadd and Shale's first Shotgun games (at which I won only one question at the first game, but it was for something like L$800 and was about sashimi [you don't forget your first L$800 question]), gave me a new perspective on how cash can alter the fabric of a game. By December, I'd begun going to Marine Park and had reached trivia winnings nirvana.

Marine Park Mardi Gras, February 27, where players got paid not only for trivia but for telling ghost stories, flashing their boobs, and dressing for the Bests contest. (Sorry, too long ago for me to remember who is pictured here.)

No Post on Winnings is Complete Without Talking About...

I was winning too much to spend, actually, and that's one of the reasons I collaborated with Thorn to develop the Buccaneer Bowl, began paying for questions at Chaos (the truth or dare challenge was the only prize offered there for the first five or six months it was running), and eventually started conducting spontaneous trivia games in Impromptu Garden.

For those who are still unfamiliar with the enigma that is Marine Park, it is a long-running, three-winner trivia venue where the prizes are a minimum of L$300/200/100 per question and sometimes more. There is an entrance fee (L$100 lately), and you can't always find it by searching for "trivia"; you need to type in "Marine Park," and events are added and deleted regularly. People have mostly discovered it by word of mouth, and many go only once and decide the money isn't worth it to return, or that the stress over trying to make their entrance fee back isn't worth it. Others become addicted. (/me raises hand)

When people hear about MP and its winnings for the first time, they often ask, "How can money like that not be worth it? Worth what?" Well. Let me try being diplomatic about this. They're strict. They have very rigid rules of conduct that drain the game of any kind of social element it might otherwise have, and -- I'd say this is an even stronger aspect -- they create a nerve-wracking (for some) atmosphere with a patently hierarchical and socially segregated host/guest structure and an infamous tendency to ban people arbitrarily, with no explanation, and with no opportunity for recourse. And they seem to be completely oblivious that there's anything odd or questionable about that.

The funny thing is, all of this added to the excitement of the game there for me. The winnings raised the stakes and made the competition feel more fierce, even when I found myself scrambling to answer questions like, "What is your favorite animal?" Even the rules (speaking during the trivia is discouraged, for instance) and the owner's tendency to spring the next question without warning contributed to a more thrilling game. You frequently hear people say they attend Marine Park games "just for the money," but I believe the money element operates not only directly but indirectly, and that it is the indirect impact that is or was stronger for some of us. It draws in some of SL's best players, which makes a successful game that much more exciting, and although it makes the atmosphere tense, it also makes the atmosphere serious. I've never had qualms with the silence rule (though I have major qualms with their means of enforcing it) and think it contributes positively to MP's MP-ness, even as it becomes something people "put up with" because they want the cash.

Lillian Shippe, Bucc Bowl banker

Such a Thing As Too Much?

I certainly hope that there aren't equivalent aspects of Bucc Bowl that people put up with because they simply want the cash. I can't do a similar kind of analysis about the effects of money on Bucc Bowl because I don't experience it as a player, but there are a few things that were important to me in designing the format. First, we decided to make it high-paying because unlike most games, players need to make the full two-hour time commitment -- they can't just pop in and out as they wish -- and we wanted to make that time commitment worth their while. There is also some pre-game organization required of not only planners but players as well, and so it seemed appropriate to reward that effort. Second, after the extremely laggy first game and the institution of ARC bonuses, we were pleased to find that it relieves a concern we originally had: that it would be possible for people to make that entire time commitment and work to put a team together and still leave empty-handed. Now, if anyone does leave with nothing, it's only because they decided to prioritize appearance (at a game where many people turn their rendering off anyway) over sim performance.

But there is another side of giving away a lot of money that I've framed positively in this post but that not everyone necessarily sees as a good thing: money, as I've noted several times, draws competition. And although I love the adrenaline rush that increased competition gives me, I recognize that for some people, there is such a thing as too much. Although we get a lot of positive accolades for Bucc Bowl, as well as some constructive criticism, the one recurring complaint is that it's very stressful. Teams invest a lot of work and strategy in choosing players, and they don't want to make a poor showing, more for the sake of their teams than for themselves. Many people want to attend for the first time without playing, in order to see what the big deal is before committing to a team, but the sim's avatar capacity makes it difficult to grant every request. I believe that the fact that your performance affects not only yourself but your teammates, as well, is probably the most significant factor in the stress level, but the money once again plays both a direct and an indirect part. It shapes the game's atmosphere, for better or for worse, and I honestly can't see Bucc Bowl functioning for less than L$10,000 per game (the minimum total payout if there are no ties and no one complies with the ARC bonus).

We've created something that I acknowledge might be just as nerve-wracking as Marine Park, but for entirely different reasons (I, for instance, am capable of scrolling through chat to find the three winners out of 35 players while people are socializing). With games like these, I'll be the first to admit that it's kind of nice sometimes just to go to a 20-question, L$20 game, relax, and hang out when there's nothing on the line but your own pride in getting an answer in first. Nonetheless, in my case, the only reason I'm able to relax in this way is that I saved up enough money before being banned from MP that I now see the winnings elsewhere as merely symbolic, and I usually tip most or all of it back.

But I can only speak for myself. Here are the questions I asked at the beginning of this post, once more: The amount of money a game pays off matters, but how much does it matter? Who does it matter to, and why? Does it stand on its own as a factor or does it interact with others in building the sense of a game?

What do you think?

Lemmings: the official mascot of SL trivia. Cinna "The Lemming" Xaris in foreground; AnaMaria "every day is Thorn day" Quintessa and Chaddington "I like to watch lemmings" Boomhauer in background.


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23 comments:

  1. Only Saturday mornings are Thorn days actually ;o)

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  2. As a player more money is more fun and more good stress. I want to say go to trivia events based on how fun they are but often if there are two and the difference is one is paying $10L and the other $15L I'll go to the $15L one for no apparent reason ;)


    Buccaneer Bowl is stressful in a non-monetary way as you don't want to let your team down or be beaten by The Triviators again.

    There are some low-paying events which are much more fun than others such as Envy's, Chaos , any strip one...

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  3. My (soon to be former)ISP has thwarted our intentions of posting simultaneously Lette.

    Marine Park is a place I've never been and probably never will because it starts at 3am UK time.

    I think I'd play Buckybowl event if it was a 1000L event. I find it *very* stressful but *very* addictive. There is such a buzz in getting an answer in before 39 other good players.

    Our team worries most about making sure four of us get to the event. My advice to those who worry about beating the Triviators at Buckybowl is to suborn Mako.

    I'm with Chad about Skygirl's Envy's event (sadly it clashes with Lou's Clues) and Chaos, and I should also mention Lacey's sadly departed Shorty's event. None of them are high stakes, but all are well-run friendly and fun events.

    And Sharon Scofield runs something like 20 events every month at 20L per question. The prize money per event is not enormous, but the monthly total is, and I can't think od a more welcoming and fun event in SL.

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  4. I don't care about the money at all. As a new SL player I found the trivia community to be fun, welcoming and obviously smart.

    I attend the events I do because I like the people and I like the trivia. Oh and the music. I enjoy the chatting, the typos, the dancing and the friendly double-entendre banter. The costume contests are fun to shop for and win!

    Negatives - I don't love the "typing contest" aspect of most SL trivia and I don't like when people use Google - obviously that can't really be prevented I suppose, but it defeats the whole point of *trivia* IMO. I guess the Googlers are the ones that are in it primarily for the money.

    Great post Lette.

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  5. Excellent post Lette. I can honestly say that I want the lindens...don't know why sometimes, but i just want more and more...does that make me a Linden whore? Afraid so :(

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  6. When I first started going to trivia it was purely for the money, but I still only managed to find events which paid about 20L a question. Double standards was my first event, and Carvers Cove was a regular haunt too. There wasn't that much available to Europeans then, so it's nice for us that there are so many more events these days.

    Like Lotus, I never have been, and never will go to MP - it's just too late and not even on a weekend night when I can have a lie in. For the times I'm generally active 'big money' doesn't really come in to it.

    I go to events now for the social aspects - the chatter and the puns, and half the time these days I miss the questions being asked anyway.

    I do tend to favour what I call quieter events sometimes too, as I don't always like the pressure of having to try to type faster then people who are not only very speedy, but also have a much quicker internet speed.
    While I admire and respect all the top players, sometimes it's nice to find a place where you can chill and relax while you play.

    Most of the places I go pay 10 - 25L a question and I don't usually see other events that offer more than this. I choose my events mainly on how I feel on the day, and also on the fun factor. I see no joy in earning 200L a question if there's more fun to be had earning 20L a question elsewhere. It's nice to earn some money from playing, but it's also nice to chill and relax with friends too.

    Picking up on Hildas comment - While I do admit to googling, (though these days I usually can't be bothered), I do take exception to people who turn up and only google. I have noticed a few over the last (almost) year and they are very noticable too. It's not that they come to google us out of any money, it's more that it's not in keeping with any trivia event if you're not planning on using any part of your own knowledge. And at least if you've googled an answer - have the guts to admit it.

    Lette - it's very good of you too to put some of your winnings back in to the game. I, like most, really enjoy your impromptu games when I can go, and the Bucc Bowl is one of a kind.

    Very interested in seeing lotus' side of this blog when she gets her isp sorted:)

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  7. I'd like to say I don't care about the money, but that's not entirely true -- I get as grouchy as anyone if I get shafted out of a correct answer. And there are events I will skip because, due to some odd points system, you have the potential to leave completely empty handed at the end of a two hour event, even if you do well throughout (I forget the name of that one... in the dungeon-type castle place). Even if you only win $20, it's nice to have something for your time (it's the principle of it -- if I win $25 or less I usually just tip it all back). I will also totally pass on a question that gives a Shiraz mall gift certificate as its prize. :P

    But I'm not always there for the money. I like Gogomodo, I don't take cash at Chaos, and I am always game for good questions even if they only pay 5-10L (and I agree, I think of 20L per question as standard). And I don't always go to MP -- when I go, I do go for the money only, and some nights I just don't want to be in that atmosphere for an hour and a half. So my virtual income has taken a hit, but I find that I enjoy SL more now that I pay less attention to the numbers.

    Bucc Bowl -- I forget that we get money for that at all lol. I'm there for the pleasure of a game packed with excellent players and three intelligent hosts who write solid questions. The complex system of points and tallies and cash rewards is something I totally tune out at Bucc Bowl.

    So... I don't have a straight answer. It's about the money sometimes. Depends on the event and the quality of questions (and the quality of the crowd, host included).

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  8. i'm in it for the money... of all the options for earning lindens back when i was a n00b (still are a newbie but shhhhh) trivia was the most appealing because i used to play trivia online before.
    Still in it for the money because to be honest; fashion is what brought me and keeps bringing me to SL, but trivia is a close second. About the prize money I dont really care much since i am not a great player and i do good sometimes and sometimes i dont and my income is very low (trivia being my only source of lindens) but when i go to a game i go to the ones i have more fun and if there are two games scheduled at the same hour with different pay I choose the one with the less good players on it because it increases my chances on getting questions, and therefore getting lindens; unless it is a theme i know about, then i take a risk.

    I've never heard about MP but i dont think i'll go there because it seems competition is tough and i would probably not recover even a bit of the enter fee, and because there is an enter fee which i find absurd (but that's not the point really.. or is it?)

    Btw lette, i love your blog.

    - Catti Vespucciano

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  9. Mako - your comment hits it on the head for me. My long winded reply can be summed up like this

    'So my virtual income has taken a hit, but I find that I enjoy SL more now that I pay less attention to the numbers.'

    Very true:)

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  10. Thanks everyone who enjoyed the post and the blog in general, not to mention my events! :)

    Mako wrote:
    "And there are events I will skip because, due to some odd points system, you have the potential to leave completely empty handed at the end of a two hour event, even if you do well throughout (I forget the name of that one... in the dungeon-type castle place)."

    I think you mean Demented? At one point I believe only the top three were getting paid, but that's been changed, and lately, everyone gets paid for the points they rack up. With the questions paying L$10/7/3, it's sort of on the low winnings end, but there are more questions than most places have (I wanna say 25 per half? But I could be wrong.), and if you are fast enough to consistently place, then it's still the equivalent of averaging one L$20 question out of every three.

    Ah, math(s). Sorry to start the day with quantification.

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  11. JoshuaStephen SchismAugust 9, 2009 at 1:04 PM

    I only care about money at marine park. I want to win everywhere, but I especially care about winning at Bucc Bowl. If you made it a requirement to be under 500 ARC with no money promised, all would do it.

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  12. Lette, on Demented, I think they have a rule that you have to stay till the end (or at least the end of each half) to get the money you earn on questions -- it's supposed to encourage people to hang around, but it does seem a bit heavy-handed to me (particularly if someone has a RL situation that comes up).

    I enjoy the competition of trivia, but the money is usually secondary. A lot depends on the host or hostess' style and what the atmosphere at the club is. I have had a lot of fun at Billy's events at the Metal Shop, just based on some of the questions/themes, even though the payouts aren't huge. I'd say the same with Josh and Circe's event -- I go as much for the show as for the questions, particularly when the categories are ones that I may not be overly familiar with. But I know that I will be entertained. Likewise with Shotgun. Percentage-wise, I probably do worse there in terms of getting questions right than at any other event, but I always have a blast, messing around with Chad and the other oddball characters at the Zoo Bar. And I would go to Lotus' event (on the rare occasions when I am online and can), even if she were only giving out half a linden per question, because I know it will be a fun event, and that I'll learn something new about Father Ted or, once upon a time, Johnny Depp and Canada.

    All that being said, I think my rule of thumb is this: if the best thing you can say about an event is "the payouts are good," then that's an event that has problems. It's the trivia equivalent of saying a blind date has "a great personality."

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  13. Demented does have the time limit rule, where you rack up money that can only be paid after a certain amount of time (usually about an hour). I've been Demented twice I think, each time I left early after having racked up a significant amount of money. I just don't have the patience to keep playing for an hour when I'm one of three-five people playing, especially when only a couple of us area actually trying to answer questions.

    Which is amazing actually, that I actually choose to give away money essentially that was already mine because of my A.D.D. You would think that because of my over-competitiveness I would never concede to A.D.D. when I was winning.. but I guess the appeal was lost when the lack of bodies took away from the sport of things. Even so, I felt gipped having to stick around for my money- unlike at Lette's recent triv where she paid out if people had to leave (it's RL, SL always comes second! hosts need to be aware of this). I even tried donating my winnings to someone else at Demented and the host refused. Even worse considering I'd put in about 45 of the requisite 60 minutes.

    But yeah, not a big fan of Demented. And what's with the TP to the middle of a town with no signs or TP's to the actual castle/dungeon/whatever? I had the hardest time finding it- had to actually whip out the mini-map and take a 30 second flight to get there.

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  14. There is a tp from the landing point to the club. It's sort of to the right and is a picture with orange flames.

    I didn't realize that about having to stay the whole time, since I don't usually go to any games for only part of the time.

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  15. I really wonder how many people would go to MP were it paying a more usual amount like 20/10 or even 50/25/10 ?

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  16. I thought MP was like Fight Club.. aren't we breaking all the rules here?

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  17. I end up giving back to the host and/or the venue about 75% of my winnings, so the money aspect, for me, is a way of keeping score only.

    The stress of Buc Bowl comes from not wanting to let your teammates down. The prize money at Buc Bowl is almost irrelevant. I'd play - and get stressed - if there were no award money.

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  18. As many people seem to be saying, I, too, play trivia both for the fun and lindens. The best events satisfy both desires. I avoid events that are frustrating and stressful, no matter how high the potential winnings, because I am not playing SL to be stressed! One thing that makes an event stressful is when the answer is known by several people and no matter how fast I think and type; I am consistently 5th or 6th place. Especially galling, when the first three places are paid! What makes an event fun and reasonably profitable for me is when the questions are so well-written that only one or two people will know the answer, and it’s not always the same people. That is what I strive for when writing questions myself. So that means, no overused subjects like atomic numbers, familiar phobias, country capitals, a certain 19th century novelist, or Charlie Brown’s dad, for example. When the questions are more original, I will not only learn something new, but there is a better chance that I will win a fair share and discover something about someone else’s personality in the process. That social aspect, as well as good chat in between questions, makes it especially fun to me.

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  19. I see your point Karm, but I like the simplicity of the typing contest. That's what gets my heart pounding and fingers flying, a nice variation to the game aspect of trivia. But that is fully attributable to my overly competitive nature, and understandably not a trait shared by every triviagoer.

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  20. I'm competetive, too, Luce, but I have sense enough to not bang my head against the wall when the playing field isn't level. And thanks for accurately calling that a "typing contest" since it is annoying to hear accolades for knowlege under those circumstances :)

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  21. P.S. Luce, wanna trade computers and internet connections and see how we stack up? My driver's ed teacher did say "It's a good thing you have the fastest reaction time I've seen in 23 years teaching this. Maybe you will have time to hit the brakes, since your depth percetion is so bad." See, Luce, now you do have my competitve spirit all riled up!!! lol.

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  22. I'm lucky enough to not have to depend on triv for my SL income. Thank goodness - while I sometimes get on a bit of a roll where the questions and the brain and the fingers and the stars are all in harmony, mostly I get to either guess or demonstrate what one instructor called my C- skill level: "Recognizes correct answer when somebody else says it". :)
    But, like others have said, it adds a little spice to the game and there's always another dress to buy, yes? So, I'll take the money and say thank you, but I'll always pick a game I know will be fun (Lotus' or something at the Diner) over something that won't make me laugh so much. Someday, I hope to see what Bucc Bowl is all about, when RL allows me to make that firm time commitment.

    BTW - great blog, Lette. :)

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