So here are some questions. As a player, have you ever challenged a host on a question? Under what circumstances? What kinds of challenges do you believe are legitimate and what kinds aren't? Have you seen any challenges take place that especially rankled you or that you thought were appropriate? If you're a host, have you had any particularly uncomfortable run-ins? And most importantly, how do you handle it when one of your questions is challenged?
I want to thank Lotus Ceriano for providing this idea for a discussion topic.
Lacey Lukas and Cybershot Dover cut a hardwood floor at Shorty's Ice HouseLacey hosts trivia there Thursdays at noon: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Magnolia%20Falls/205/40/22
Yes, things are going smoothly then somebody in open chat isn't happy with my last answer, or dings up an IM challenging me. I'm trying to follow the answers on a macbook screen with 25 people playing and we're a bit behind schedule...
ReplyDeleteI don't mind challenges. It's my job to make sure the questions are good ones, and when I get it wrong I want to put it right. I might ask them to IM me with evidence (wiki or whatever), or check it myself. So far I haven't had anyone be unreasonable about it.
I love alternative correct answers that I hadn't thought of, and they certainly get an extra full payout.
Close answers not quite right might get pity Lindens from me (who came up with pity Lindens? Sharon or Nelly I think)and sometimes it's just the host's judgement.
I don't often challenge as a player even when I know I'm right, but next time that question about the blind man holding up a bank in London comes up, and I say "white stick" and the lindens are given to someone coming later with "blind cane", I'm definitely going to be saying something!. That's twice now that is!
Normally I like people who point out errors, however minor, and try to report them myself unless I got paid for the wrong answer :)
ReplyDeleteLast weekend I had my first bad experience with an error as a host.
We had a blatant error in one question, and despite telling the person who pointed it out in IM that it would get resolved at the end, they kept harping on it in public chat.
Normally we pay as much as a question award for a bad error, or $20-50L for minor errors. Often with dumb mistakes like USSR vs Russia we pay multiple people for an error. I know this person didn't know this because it was her first time there, and I guess she didn't care for the rules mentioning we would not stop for errors, so she kept mentioning it and making digs at the host(s) even after being asked to stop repeatedly. It got tired so I banned her. It was quite nerve racking up to that point but not too bad. Then she IMs me that she's going to AR me! A bit of a joke since the rules said there were errors. So I pasted her the rules for her AR , and suggested she copy/paste our whole IM log for them. Thought it was over...then a minute later she asked me for her money back. She had put money in our bonus round jar and asked for her $100L back. I didn't remember her amount for sure and since she had been so nasty I decided I would check the transaction log , meanwhile round two was already started... in my log she had paid $1L. She got mad and told me it was $100L so I paid her $1L and said she better file a support ticket and quote her transaction log, and I sent her my log entry for the $1L she gave me. She kept sending me IMs telling me I couldn't ban her or have wrong answers so finally I muted her.
It all seems funny later but when it's happening during the event it really throws you off.
I swear, I'm not the person Chadd banned. :)
ReplyDeleteAs a player, I've challenged the occasional question, but I try to be nice about it and I've never pitched a fit. Usually I just ask a followup question: recent examples would be something like "I thought they were Greek?" or "Foxglove and digitalis are the same, aren't they?" Most of the time the Host is Right and Lou is Confused, and I'm perfectly willing to err on the side of Lou Confusion—it's a very safe bet. I'm a ditz.
If I'm sure the official answer is incorrect and no one else jumps on it, I'll open an IM with the host. The only times I can think that I've done that are when someone else should have won the question: I don't much care if I don't get the winning dime, but I'll try to make sure other people get their dimes. If I win and I think someone else should have the money, I'll just pass the dime along.
Contested questions usually get resolved amicably and pretty quickly: on a couple occasions hosts have rolled out a substitute question, sometimes they pay multiple winners, and sometimes they split a prize between players. The process can even be amusing and fun: some trivia games have a really light tone and this sort of thing doesn't rock the boat very much. I remember one game when I was new where Circe Falta handled a bum question with exceptional humor and grace, and I thought it was wonderful.
That said, I've seen people pitch a rude fit about wrong answers, and I don't much care for it. I understand wanting to do things straight up, but there's no need to throw a hissy, spew vitriol, or get hostile. Trivia is for fun: if you aren't enjoying it, just bid adieu and leave. Sheesh.
I have been cheated out of winning questions by hosts stubbornly sticking with their pre-baked wrong answers; however, to date that only ever happened to me at Marine Park. Given the nature of their game, I pretty much just bit my tongue and let it slide. (Any readers who don't know me should take anything I say about Marine Park with a grain of salt: http://sllou.blogspot.com/2009/03/and-horse-you-rode-in-on.html)
Until Moysie rearranged his furniture I used to regularly have to fend off claims that people had the first right answer because they were unaware of people out of their chat ranges. When I was new and poor I used to moan about things a lot. Now I usually only do when there is a glaring error. There are, however, some subjects that I am pedantic about...
ReplyDeleteGordon Brown is the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Victoria was queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. George II was king of Great Britain. Charles I was king of England and he was also the king of Scotland. Henry VIII was king of England. Alfred the Great was King of Wessex.
As a player what irritates me most is the little language differences. On this side of the pond typists correct errors with tippex not whiteout, champagne and orange juice is bucks fizz not mimosa, “Love in the First Degree” was a hit for Bananarama not Alabama. Water boils at 100 degrees not 212 degrees. Knowing immediately that Bob Beaman’s long jump world record from Mexico ’68 was 8m90cm turns out to be useless when the host insists on everyone ploughing through pages of spam to get to 27’ 2½”
Don’t ask me how or why I immediately know Bob Beaman’s long jump world record from Mexico ’68 was 8m90cm I just do.
I said before I dont google...I do, however, use google to check if I THINK a host is wrong and I'll say so in main if a) Im bothered enough and b) other sources indicate a host is wrong only if I'm IGNORED will I continue making jokes about it thereafter.
ReplyDeleteI think if someone suggests a host is wrong a host should at least acknowledge their doubts especially if more than one person queries the host's answer the host who has presumably checked their questions for accuracy should be able to refer the person challenging to their source.
It's not often I do challenge. Usually when it's a subject I think I know. And it's certainly not to squeeze a few pence from the Host.
As a host and participant I’ve experienced both sides of this. In the past I’ve been really annoyed if a question has been given to an incorrect answer (or as Lotus has had – to an alternative name for the same thing). I don’t think I’ve ever been unreasonable to the host about it. I may have moaned and then vented my frustrations to friends im, as friends have been known to do to me.
ReplyDeleteIt is after all, only a game. Nowadays I tend to be a little more relaxed. I go to a regular event where at least one answer will be ‘not exactly right’, but any queries are simply told – 'the host has the answers'. I just accept this now and go to the event for the fun. Thankfully hosts like this are in the minority, and most good hosts will acknowledge that there may indeed be a misunderstanding.
As a host, it can be frustrating when people challenge, and I think it mostly depends on how they go about it. Most challenges are incorrect or are a misunderstanding between different languages. If I ever am incorrect, or I have an answer pop up that I hadn’t thought of then I will always admit to it and correct it. I am human after all, and we are all prone to mistakes. Thankfully this doesn’t usually happen and I hope I never come across the person Chad had at the weekend.
There is another side though – which might be worth bearing in mind. Wherever I have felt the need to challenge an answer at an event, I have always gone to the internet and checked to make sure. Mostly I have been correct, but occasionally you find something out that you didn’t know. For example, for those of you who think a cicada is a grasshopper – it isn’t! I thought it too until I researched one of my questions. So sometimes the host will be right, and we may be wrong. But then again – I now know that Batgirl isn’t Batwoman as well – thanks Lou
Thankfully most of the challenges I’ve encountered have been minor, and no one has ever been unreasonable. I like Lotus, Chad and most other hosts I know, am willing to admit that we may sometimes make the odd mistake. Not all hosts are that flexible but then again not all participants are either.
Trivia is about testing out knowledge and learning, but it’s also about having fun. Some people forget that sometimes.
For the most part, I try not to I challenge -- as Lou said, it's all for fun. I also think it's generally bad form to argue with the host's rules. It's their trivia, they can do what they like and judge as they please, and if I don't like their style I can take myself elsewhere. Sometimes, however, I will say something if the facts are just plain off -- especially if that misleads the question or costs someone who's answered correctly a win.
ReplyDeleteFor example, hormones and glands are not part of "the tissue system" (even though some copiable asshat actually came up with that, the very same incorrect answer the hosts were looking for) -- this is one I aggressively argued in IM with the host, who eventually acknowledged that she had made an error and gave payouts of several hundred dollars to the people who had rightly answered "endocrine".
A more lighthearted example was from one of the Bucc Bowls, where the question asked: "In what 1993 movie did Ben Kingsley win a Best Actor nomination for playing the role of Iranian expatriate Mr. Behrani?" The film House of Sand and Fog came out in 2003, not 1993. There is easily enough information in the question to quickly get the answer if you ignore the incorrect date, but the simple factual error tripped me up long enough to miss the buzzer. So I grumbled a little in local, and everyone ignored me... as they should have. If people can readily get the answer based on the information given, then small errors from the host should be forgiven (Lette insists that trivia hosts are human, which is perhaps fodder for another blog discussion, hehe).
I favor the follow-up question style Lou mentioned, which is a diplomatic way to point out a possible error and also gives the host plenty of room to say, "Nope, you're wrong and shut it." Basically, I have very little tolerance for incessant pedantry -- arguing semantics and holding up the game is incredibly tiresome to the people around you, and just makes you look like a douche. It's an international community -- consider your host's nationality, be flexible, appreciate that it's a game and no one owes you a damn thing, and keep the quibbling to a minimum.
Oh, and no one has challenged me as a host yet, but then, I usually out-nerd my players. ;)
I'll sometimes correct the host. Depends on the host and circumstances (and my mood :-).
ReplyDeleteIf it's a matter of interpretation, like the ever-popular debates over who REALLY counts as the first [whatever], I won't bother to mention it.
If someone had a clearly correct answer but the host didn't recognize it, I might chime in if the host seems open to gentle correction. Hypothetical example: host asks for a French king, looking for Charlemagne, and someone immediately answers Charles I before anyone says Charlemagne. The host doesn't know that Charlemagne was just a nickname for Charles I, and so skips over a completely correct answer. (Trivia writers: Try to anticipate acceptable answers to your questions.)
I usually don't offer a correction if the question was poorly phrased. Hypothetical example: King Charles of France was part of what dynasty? The host is looking for Capetian, but Carolingian and Valois would be correct too, because the host didn't say which King Charles of France. (Trivia writers: Make the question specific enough to lead to a particular answer.)
I got into trouble with one host. I was first with an exactly correct answer. A few others were right behind me with the same or equivalent answers. People started piling on guess after guess, until eventually someone stumbled onto the answer the host was seeking. It was a blatantly incorrect answer (like asking where a human fetus gestates, and then rejecting "uterus" and "womb" but accepting "bladder"). I pointed this out in local chat in what I hoped was a gentle correction; others concurred. Some hosts might have accepted the correction and paid the actual correct answer too. This host insisted on the expected (and wrong) answer. I let it go then. Shortly after the contest, I sent the host a message that was intended to be cheery, tactful, and helpful for future reference, including a Wikipedia link that showed what the expected answer really was. The host was already offline. A day or two later, I signed on to a long, angry response from the host -- accusing me of grubbing for a few lindens, banning me forever from her events, and angrily threatening what she'd do to me if she ever caught me making a mistake anywhere. I've since gotten gun-shy on correcting a host, unless I'm certain how the host responds to corrections.