It seems like everyone has a position on using Google and other search engines during trivia. Some see no problem with it or even consider it a method of "research." Others consider it cheating, or at least a lesser form of trivia playing. I'd like to use this as the first topic of discussion on the new blog. Please post your thoughts: pro, con, or indifferent (if anyone is actually indifferent about this).
Do you Google? If so, why? If not, why not? Does it bother you when others do it? If you host, do you ask the players to refrain? Resign yourself to the fact that some will? Try to design questions that are "google-proof"? Discuss!
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I'm not terribly fond of the Googler myself, but I'll admit there are times when a question's dragged on long enough to make it a necessity.
ReplyDeleteI suppose there is a certain skill in looking up an answer quickly and getting back in time to post it, so I don't mind if people do it while I'm hosting.
The biggest problem I have with googling though, is that when people copy and paste the question into google, they'll often pull up the exact list of questions a host is using. That'd be one reason I make up all my own. Probably can tell that since they don't always make sense :)
-circe
I'm not a googler!!! Although it's a fun thing I still see trivia as a challenge and a test of my brain, my knowledge and my reflexes... and while I dont really have qualms about other people googling, I'd consider myself a 'cheat' if I used a site like google to find answers.
ReplyDeleteAfter all if you were in a 'pub' quiz team or in a TV quiz show there'd be no google to rely on...
Mael
At most events the competition is too fast to be able to do a search. In some cases where there is time I do use it, say at Buccaneer Bowl during those round winner timed questions..
ReplyDeleteI don't think Google harms anyone. If somebody knows the answer then they'll get it before anyone else can google it anyway.
ReplyDeleteI do google on occasion, but not as much as I used to - I like to have an educated (or uneducated) guess or two first. What I don't like is people who obviously google and deny it. At least if I've googled a tough question I'll give credit where it belongs:)
A good googler is also a way of including people who maybe aren't as quick as some. It gives everyone an equal chance of finding the answer. And on occasion it's essential - if nobody knows the answer we could be there all night.
As long as people are having a go and taking part, then to me, it doesn't matter how they do it. It's all in the name of fun anyway.
I'm indifferent. It's an issue of Google Ethics, as I call them. People who refuse to Google at all and see it as cheating are at one end of the Google Ethics spectrum, people who do nothing but Google and try and hunt down the host's questions are at the other. Notice I did not label the ends of the spectrum as "high/strong" or "low/weak", because honestly, I don't think it's worth all that judgment.
ReplyDeleteDo I Google? Yeah, sure, occasionally, when a question is begging to be put out of its misery. Like Circe, I write my own questions when I host, but I don't mind if/when people need to Google for the answer because maybe they learn something or have to put together several concepts to search effectively (heh, yes, I realize my trivia is nerdier than most). Sometimes Google can be a test of a quick and agile mind.
I think this is an issue that everyone decides for themselves. The Googlers have every right to get in there if the big brains and fast typers are stumped (and if the host is lazy enough to use a full quiz straight off the web) -- it's a fair game. Plus, I find it kind of entertaining to watch people fall into the Google Gap, which is my term for that significant pause between the initial flood of incorrect answers and the winning (and usually obvious) Googled result.
/me grins and shrugs.
What Mako said! We can't prevent Googling so we may as well embrace it.
ReplyDeletePersonally I hardly ever Google, but that's just because I'm too lazy to bother.
I too write my own questions, for me the main reason is that I enjoy researching and doing them
I am a fairly ardent hater of the google during trivia, with one major exception, when questions are "designed" to be googled. On those occasions, and only with some rather well developed internal guilt in place, do I feel the right or need to google.
ReplyDeleteOtherwise, if it isn't in my brain at the inception of the game, I don't bother to try to artificially enhance.
Thanks for the opening comments, everyone! I'm really enjoying reading them. Since Chadd mentioned the Bucc Bowl bonuses, I thought I'd chime in and mention that the google factor was foremost in our minds from the get-go in figuring out how to work with it. On a question that was not usually (and with the tie breaks no longer is) about getting your answer in first, we needed to find ways either to make them google-proof or to intend google as a research component but not a single-search one. The former isn't easy, as anyone who's tried it will know, and the latter rendered questions that people complained were insanely difficult.
ReplyDeleteThe current bonus question format, with its two parts, seems to work best, and when we test-run them for difficulty, I ask Thorn and Lillian to work together as if they were a team who might indeed choose to google. There are so many ways to get to the answers (immediate knowledge, team collaboration, and of course internet search) that google ends up not being inevitable, and we tweak the most difficult questions until it is possible to google one part if you can think of the other part.
This doesn't mean we invite teams to Go Forth And Google, and my hope is that the two-part format encourages teams to try collaboration first to see if they're able to pool their intellectual resources before searching, but it does expect Google to be part of most teams' process at some point. This is despite the fact that none of the Buccies, as players and competitors, are fans of The Google. I just wanted to include one example of how a trio of hosts deals with the Google factor.
Personally I don't Google when I'm on the answering end because with my specs, the odds of getting the question looked up, getting an answer and then being first to type it aren't great. It's hardly worth running the risk of Firefox taking one of it's legendary tantrums and causing me to miss the next question which, Murphy's Law, would be significantly easier.
ReplyDeleteAs a quizmaster I have a relaxed attitude to letting players Google for the exact same reasons. I acknowledge that everyone's idea of difficult or obscure is different so I do tend to warn people when I think they might want to have Google or Wikipedia up and running in the background and let them decide whether the risk is worth it. And besides, I can't prove someone is or isn't using it.
I find myself in the awkward position of agreeing with Maelstrom. (But at least I also agree with Mako, Lotus, Rickson, Cully, and others here!) As a general rule, I don't Google during trivia, mostly because I can't be arsed. I consider the games to be a fun personal challenge: if I don't know an answer or have a random guess at the top of my head, I'm OK with keeping my mouth shut. But I'm not especially good at speed games anyway, and sometimes another player's answer will jog something in my memory, or sometimes a possible answer is on the tip of my tongue and takes a few moments to coalesce. So I probably look like a Google-gapper sometimes.
ReplyDeleteThe exceptions to my "no Google" stance are a) curiosity and b) wondering whether a question's "official" answer is correct. I'll sometimes start Googling about an interesting question just to learn more - although I won't type in an answer even if I stumble on it. I will also use Google to check up on an answer I think is questionable. In those cases, I usually find I was mistaken—but not always. ;)
I don't really much care if people use Google during trivia. They can't do it fast enough to beat people who legitimately know the answer. But more importantly, these games are supposed to be *fun.* If being able to use Google lets more people participate and have a good time, great!
Personally, I think the host/hostess has as much responsibility for people googling as any of the players. I've seen some trivia where the questions are so obscure that even people who know the subject would have no idea without googling. If that's the case (and there isn't a time limit or rollover option that would cut the question short without someone getting the answer), then I completely understand people googling, but I don't think it's a well-constructed question. To me, an ideal trivia question should be one that someone has a chance of knowing or at least making an educated guess at from clues in the question itself (or, if necessary, additional clues given after the question if people are struggling with it).
ReplyDeleteLike Lou and Mael and others, I go to trivia as a fun challenge to see if I know something off the top of my head -- even if I'm not first with it. And if I don't know it but someone else does, I don't mind -- you learn something new. But I get frustrated if the question seems designed to send people googling. I just don't view that as "trivia," but rather as "minutiae no one could possibly know without looking it up." And I'd tend to leave an event if I felt the questions skewed too much to forcing people to google.
I almost never google, partly because I'm lazy and also because I actually like trying to throw out educated (or even smart ass) guesses for a bit instead. While I understand why some people would google, it does seem kind of a cutting corners tactic to me. And I really like what Chad and Shale do in terms of rolling over a question if no one gets it in a certain amount of time and passing the prize money on to the next question. When there's a rollover option in effect, I do think googling is kind of cheesy. I don't judge anyone for doing it, however. ;)
But -- and this may tee up another subject for debate -- in the grand scheme of things, I find that I am far less annoyed by people who google for answers than I am by number-spamming guessers on date/number questions. Which is why I never ask questions that look for numbers as answers(unless its a number everyone knows, like the year Christopher Columbus sailed the ocean blue). To me, there is even less skill involved in number spamming than there is in doing a targeted google search, and at least the google searching doesn't make my screen go haywire with chat spam.
Sinn does bring up a very good point there. I've even seen people that will actually fire off a canned gesture while playing Gogomodo that will individually state every year from a decade, or such like, on a separate line. That's fine for Gogomodo, but in a live event I personally would favour disqualifying any contestant that did that.
ReplyDeleteSpam annoys me. In particular a few hosts who ask questions such as "how many hairs are on the average human head?"
ReplyDeleteNobody knows that and even if you do try and google you are likely to find several different answers.
I hope people are still looking at this... I was accused of using a cheat script on a gogomodo game tonight. It used to crack Miss up when she was so accused. She claimed it was the last refuge of the inept. But it got me wondering is there such a script? Anyone KNOW? or failing that, anyone have an opinion?
ReplyDeleteGG